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Metal Forming Tools Air Shaping and Planishing Hammers, English Wheels, Shrinking/Stretching Machine, Metal Formers, Bead Forming Machines, Sheet Metal Brakes

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Old 01-31-2019, 03:50 PM
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TheBandit TheBandit is offline
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Integral gutters with bead roller

I have a 30ft of integral gutter on the front of my garage, made out of galvinized steel when the house was built back in 1965. It seems to have been made in 4 sections, likely on a press brake, with no-built in taper for draining and questionable seals at each of the overlaps for the sections. There is obvious water damage below the gutter where a huge section of stucco under the eave is sagging and dripping water when it rains. I'm sure some wood replacement is going to be needed, but the gutter itself also needs a remake. A local company quoted an astronomical price to make a replacement.

Would it be practical and/or difficult to make such a thing using coiled aluminum sheet, perhaps in two 15 ft pieces, using a bead roller and tipping dies? The profile would look something like the attachment below. In an ideal world, I would build a taper into the whole length so the depth of the gutter is shallow at the start and gets deeper toward the downspout, to aid drainage flow.



I do not currently own a bead roller, so I would have to tool up to do this and learn the basics. I figure for the cost I was quoted I could probably buy a decent machine and tooling. I figure I can make end caps using a press brake or other tools. My biggest concerns are planning out the order of the bends, getting the bends straight, and handling what could be a fairly long length of material. I'm not really sure if I can form that profile for over/around the facia without crashing material into the dies or roller frame.

Do you think this is possible/practical? Any ideas/suggestions?
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Last edited by TheBandit; 01-31-2019 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:25 PM
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alwaysFlOoReD alwaysFlOoReD is offline
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Is this flat roof?
I would do it in two [or 3 if necessary] pieces [not talking length], a drip cap that slides under the roofing, and the gutter that slides under the drip edge. Much easier to get a slope. You don't need much slope, maybe 3/4" over your 30 ft. I have a 10.5" brake and could bend that up for you quite easily in aluminum. I would charge C$300, material included. Probably C$300 for install.
Edit: I'm not offering to do the job, just giving an idea if worth.

The problem comes when there is snow and if an ice dam forms the melt could travel back under the roofing. A heating tape laid in the gutter and down pipe will help.

Last edited by alwaysFlOoReD; 02-01-2019 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 02-01-2019, 10:33 AM
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R.DesJardin R.DesJardin is offline
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Well that is how gutters are made now, the van shows up, the worker bee measures a length and then from a giant roll of aluminum a 1 piece gutter gets formed between the rolls. I just had a short one done for above my shop door when they were across the street doing the neighbors house.
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Last edited by R.DesJardin; 02-01-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 02-01-2019, 02:53 PM
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Thanks both for the replies. This is at the drainage end of a flat roof so basically the roof has a shallow grade and dead-ends into this gutter. Where I'm located there is no concern about snow and we don't get tons of rain. I have been thinking about shopping this to folks with brakes, but it would probably have to be made in four 10' or under sections. I would really like to make it continuous or with as few pieces as possible to eliminate overlaps/seams, but 30+ft would be a lot of material to handle and mark up accurately to trim and place bend lines if I'm going to build in the taper.

I took a look at the machines gutter folks use. Indeed they also use roll forming, but the rollers are situated on a framework and aligned for a standard section like a k-gutter so they can easily crank out lengths from a roll. I would have to free form this to some degree using a simple bead roller. The draw for me is learning to make something myself and getting a new tool out of the deal.

Do you think I would be able to form that rolled-over set of bends to go over the facia and create the drip edge? I am looking at bead rollers now and I don't think i could do that without crashing into the dies or the roller frame. Maybe I would need to make it multi-piece or use flashing along the facia instead?
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:53 PM
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alwaysFlOoReD alwaysFlOoReD is offline
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I can't help anymore with your decision.
Another point tho, make sure you seal between the roof and the flange that goes under it. Water will wick up if you don't. If rain is seldom enough that may not be a concern, but if moisture gets trapped there for too long you will get rot.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:30 PM
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I have a 36" MB bead roller with tipping dies, and I would not want to attempt what you are wanting to do.

The way tipping dies work, you have to manual apply pressure upwards as it rolls along the entire length of the material. It also requires multiples passes per bend, the sharper the angle, the more passes. You'd be looking at 17-20 passes minimum to get that shape. Handling a 15' piece wouldn't be easy unless you had some sort of infeed/outfeed table/roller setup. Keeping the bends straight wouldn't be too big of a deal with a back stop setup. I'm not sure close the the bends could be back to back, as I've only ever tipped one edge per/piece before. I could do some test bends if you wanted to go forward with the bead roller idea though.

IMO, I think you'd be better off building your own progressive roll former setup like the gutter folks use.
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:39 PM
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TheBandit TheBandit is offline
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Thanks for the helpful input TS3g. I have been thinking along the same lines on potential issues, but I don't think I'll want to build a dedicated progressive roller machine since it would have no other uses.

I think I'll just check around again on press forming.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:11 PM
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What about laying in fiberglass and using drip edge where needed for aesthetics.
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2019, 05:52 PM
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Having metal siding and roofing makes me far less then a qualified hasBeenDripUnderpressure!
But when I needed some metal made up to build this Faraday cage;
I learned that I could get anything I was willing to pay for at the company that made the metal for the contractors
that were telling me that I couldn't do what I did............

To be clear you are looking for the Company that Supplies the Roofer and not a Roofing Company

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Old 02-11-2019, 10:00 PM
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That's a tough one. In my experience it was worth every penny I've paid for seamless gutters on two different projects now. I wouldn't call either an astronomical amount, but it was also very standard gutter profiles.

The problem with this is it's not a standard profile, so the whole deal of shooting seamless gutters out the back of a van probably goes out the window.

The flashing brake that I've used was 10 feet long. I'm not sure if a longer version is available, but they're the tool for doing this from coil stock. The thing I would question is whether 24 gauge (?) aluminum coil stock is sufficiently thick to hold up.

How integral is all of this to your home's construction? Would it be practical to remove the wood and replace with a single fascia board at the back of the gutter and do a conventional seamless gutter in its place? Or would it just be too ugly to consider doing something like that?

I bet you're getting quoted for the PITA factor of it being non-standard with an unknown amount of underlying work from water damage.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:02 PM
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The look of the house depends on an integral gutter for this location. It's a flat roof garage with an extended roof overhang, built in 1965 in the "mid century modern" design. A standard gutter on the face of the fascia would look odd and earned a preemptive veto from my wife.

Making this in sections with a brake would probably be the most straightforward way to build it. I should be able to find a local metal or roofing shop that can make it happen without breaking the bank. Thanks for all the ideas!
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:42 PM
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CarterKraft CarterKraft is offline
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Cool tool I saw on IG the other day, no idea if would help here.
https://www.stortz.com/product/bender-xl-150/

And... After looking again at that site there are a bunch of benders on there, so many I have no idea what the difference is?

Last edited by CarterKraft; 02-16-2019 at 10:46 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2019, 12:08 AM
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alwaysFlOoReD alwaysFlOoReD is offline
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That is a cool tool. Lots to learn at stortz youtube channel, I spent about an hour there just checking out various vids.
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Old 02-18-2019, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBandit View Post
The look of the house depends on an integral gutter for this location. It's a flat roof garage with an extended roof overhang, built in 1965 in the "mid century modern" design. A standard gutter on the face of the fascia would look odd and earned a preemptive veto from my wife.

Making this in sections with a brake would probably be the most straightforward way to build it. I should be able to find a local metal or roofing shop that can make it happen without breaking the bank. Thanks for all the ideas!
Ah. I figured that was probably the case. Maybe check with an HVAC shop? They would have the equipment and galvanized material to do this.
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:04 PM
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The obvious solution
Rebuild the structure out of KD lumber then thin Polyester resin and 30% to 50% with Acetone add just a hint less hardener and paint heavy on to the wood.
the resin will just suck into the wood when cured add a layer of mat and call it done.
I'm sure the Redliner can tell you the correct way to do it...

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Last edited by entropy; 02-18-2019 at 09:12 PM. Reason: phatphingarz
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