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-   -   Building Two AR51 Buggies (http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11535)

stock93 05-13-2016 10:44 AM

Building Two AR51 Buggies
I've wanted a single seat rail buggy with a motorcycle drive train for years. Something like a honda pilot on steroids. We ran across the plans for building AR51 buggies. My brother in law, Jason, decided he wanted to build one as well so he purchased the plans. I managed to buy a complete CBR900 as a donor for my buggy. It's late enough to be a fuel injected bike. It should move along a 900lb buggy plenty. Jason managed to find a ZX1000 engine.

After we got the plans in hand, we started cutting out parts on my CNC plasma table. Nesting parts together like this lets you minimize the wasted plate. There's a lot of weigh reducing holes in these parts.


Here's some more parts cut out. These are for the rear suspension upright. I apparently neglected to take a picture of them completed. I'll go dig them out and take a picture shortly.


I do have a close up of welding them up. We used some all thread through the holes to make sure they lined up and keep the sides far enough apart.


stock93 05-13-2016 10:45 AM

We cleaned the slag off of all those parts. It was a time consuming pain. This made me start looking for a better way.


The next thing we started working on was building the front spindles. Apparently I take to many close up pictures and not some of the whole part. We turned down the back of the spindle pins in the lathe. These are a standard off the shelf spindle. Probably made for a trailer or something along those lines.


I managed to cut out the sprockets on the plasma table. I think they will work just fine but I don't have any of the right chain laying around.


Sometimes its kind hard to get the plasma dialed in. I think I got this pretty good. It's 5/16 a-36 plate.


stock93 05-13-2016 10:46 AM

We have been making a bunch of the parts such as the pedals but I'm bad about not taking pictures. I'm going to try to remember to take them while I'm working on this buggy project. We have spent hours cutting tubing on the bandsaw for these. Building two of them at the same time seems to help as you just make twice as many parts on each setup. Two definitely aren't taking twice the amount of time vs building just one. We finally got the tubing in the other day that was holding us up from putting the floor of the frame together. We laid it out on my welding table. This table makes it really easy to get things nice and square.



entropy 05-13-2016 12:15 PM

Check into vibratory Deburring: AKA Tumbling to clean up Plasma cut parts.
I paid, I think about $100 for a ~2-foot dia. machine (used) with Media. Works great and saves a bunch of time.


alwaysFlOoReD 05-13-2016 12:24 PM

I was thinking rock tumbling as well, using a concrete mixer. No experience tho.

entropy 05-13-2016 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by alwaysFlOoReD (Post 140730)
I was thinking rock tumbling as well, using a concrete mixer. No experience tho.

If you can control the speed I can see it, but only for Steel parts the actual vibratory machine can be used of nonferrous.


stock93 05-16-2016 03:10 PM

I'll have to check that out. I have a vibratory tumbler for reloading that I've never used. We have been using an acid bath. It eats the slag and mill scale right off the parts. The downside is they flash rust pretty quickly if you don't coat them due to our high humidity.

TheBandit 05-16-2016 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by stock93 (Post 140725)
We cleaned the slag off of all those parts. It was a time consuming pain. This made me start looking for a better way

Weld Kleen spray works great for this. :beer:

entropy 05-16-2016 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by stock93 (Post 140739)
I'll have to check that out. I have a vibratory tumbler for reloading that I've never used. We have been using an acid bath. It eats the slag and mill scale right off the parts. The downside is they flash rust pretty quickly if you don't coat them due to our high humidity.

there are(was?) water based anti-rust products that can be added to the tumbler and I'll be darned if I can find the one I used!

stock93 05-16-2016 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by TheBandit (Post 140740)
Weld Kleen spray works great for this. :beer:

So you're telling me this stuff will remove the dross off plasma cut parts? You understand I'm not looking for some welding anti spatter right?

TheBandit 05-16-2016 04:50 PM

Sorry I misunderstood the problem. Weld Kleen will not help with dross.

TheBandit 05-16-2016 05:05 PM

Hate to link to PBB, but there is a good discussion on dialing in line speed in post #6 here:

Running a set of side-by-side line speed lines will help you optimize the line speed for minimal dross on a given material.

Here's another article that might help: http://www.cncplasma.com.my/cutting_quality2.html

ScooteK 05-16-2016 11:01 PM

Your plasma Cuts look a little slow, or you're having trouble with your air. Maybe the air is not keeping up or there's too much moisture in it. But they definitely look a little slow. What are you using? There are a lot of reasons for dross. You should be able to get 75% and 80% less then what I'm seeing in your pictures

stock93 05-16-2016 11:11 PM

Here's the rear suspension upright. It uses a dodge intrepid front hub bolted to it for a wheel bearing.


Here's one showing the whole front spindle.


We did the actual welding and final fit up the other day. We had previously been using the table to fit the tubes. We clamped it all over the place then tack welded it all together. We put all these stops on the table so we could easily and quickly line up the second frame. Jason commented that this is where this table really shines. It took us about 15 minutes to put the second one together. Most of that was me dressing the ends of some of the tubes to make them fit tightly.


I almost ran out of clamps. There's only one more on the end of the table where I have been keeping them. I'll be getting some more shortly. I also used all the ball lock bolts that hold stuff down to the table.


I'm excited to see these. Up to this point all we have been doing is making parts and pieces. This actually is beginning to look like something.


stock93 05-16-2016 11:20 PM

I'm using a dynatorch 4x8 with a Thermal Dynamics A80. I was having moisture problems at this point. I have since fixed that issue. I usually try to cut for the best quality of cut regardless of the dross. I've found that cutting faster is making more taper and making holes not round.

ScooteK 05-16-2016 11:28 PM

I am super jealous of that fixture table. I run my circles about 65% of the line speed for straight cuts. I would highly recommend that you follow Bandits line speed test. The cut you did on those sprockets looked great. What kind of amperage are you cutting it? Are you cutting your interior features clockwise or counterclockwise? And you're outside cuts? Do you have any pictures of what these buggies will look like?

stock93 05-16-2016 11:39 PM

That fixture table is a recent addition to my shop. I'm kicking myself for not buying it sooner. It's absolutely awesome to use. Some of the other stuff I've built over the past year would have been much easier and hours quicker. I'm about done building stuff on the concrete floor.

I've been doing my circles at 60% of straight line. I looked at both links Bandit posted. Thanks for those, btw. I still need to tune my machine some more. Those sprockets were cut out of 5/16 a-36 using 60A and 35 IPM. I don't remember which is which for clockwise vs counter. I set it up for whatever was recommended. I'll double check it.

Here's what it will look like when finished.

TheBandit 05-17-2016 12:37 PM

I was noticing in this photo it looks like the outline of the part has less dross than the interior/hole features. Is that just the pierce point causing that or is there more to it, like a different line speed being used for some reason?

I would love to build a buggy like this. Looks like a great start. That table is awesome - maybe you should build a "spare" third buggy while you have things setup :)

stock93 05-17-2016 11:39 PM

Some of it is the pierces and some of it is the holes are being cut at 60% of the straight line speed. This is done to improve hole quality.

I'm really excited to be building this buggy. I think it's going to be a ton of fun when we get done with them. There has been some discussion of building a "spare" buggy while we have things setup. It wouldn't be a bad idea but I've come to the conclusion that I don't have the time or money to buy parts for another one at the moment. I really probably should do it anyway as I know my wife is going to ride in this and steal it from me.

stock93 06-06-2016 11:34 AM

Jason and I got some time to work on the buggy Sunday afternoon. I've been extremely busy in the shop so things are probably going to progress slowly until things slow down. I can only work on this when I have room in the shop. As a result, we will probably do some things in a weird order. We want to make progress when we have the opportunity. I received an order of material this week that had some of the od sizes of tubing used to make these buggies. We decided to go ahead and turn out the rear bearing carriers. The spool will pass through this that holds the rear brake rotor and sprocket as well as hooks up to the cv joints. We cut the material to rough length with the bandsaw then threw it in the lathe to face the ends. This is 3" .188 wall DOM.


These were good for Jason to be involved in making. He's learning to use the lathe. We didn't take a bunch of pictures as we were kinda trying to concentrate on what we were doing. Doing this kind of work without a digital read out is pretty tedious. I really should outfit this lathe with a DRO. The end result was good. These should work fine.


That's all we had time to work on this round.

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