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-   -   JD2 Model3, Pro-tools 105, and JMR Benders Compared (http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1668)

KeithXtreme 02-28-2007 09:04 PM

JD2 Model3, Pro-tools 105, and JMR Benders Compared
 
25 Attachment(s)
Welcome to what just may be the first unbiased comparison of the JD2 Model3, Pro-tools 105, and JMR Benders. There is a lot of the old Ford vs Chevy mentality towards these companies. Owners of these benders have a loyal appreciation of these products with due reasons. These are arguably the most popular benders under $1000.

I personally with the OFN have had many requests to compare these products. Tons of questions flow in each day about these products and until now has never been answered in a clear and concise manner on the Internet. This is a huge responsibility and I tread into it with some trepidation.

You may ask, “How can you be unbiased, when you have sold Pro-tools for 4 years? that is a good question. I have indeed been a dealer of Pro-tools products for almost 4 years and recently was approached by JD2 inquiring about Xtreme Crawlers possibly selling their products. Which is how this all started, I knew a little about the Model3 bender but not enough to make any educated statements about it. You can see this in my responses to users on this very site.

JD2 offered to send me a package consisting of their Model3 Bender, Degree Ring, Handle, all hardware, and 3 Dies. Then JMR heard about the comparison and wanted to get in on it. So they sent me a complete mechanical bender package, along with a full Hydraulic Conversion kit.

So with that said, I am in the unique situation to have all three benders and the ability to take measurements and use them. I will at no time throughout this comparison offer any personal opinions or remarks. I am simply the source by which to deliver the specs to you the user.

I fully encourage the manufacturers to participate in this comparison, by posting up their remarks and knowledge. I also encourage all the users to post up their experiences, customer service issues, concerns, and questions. Etc. But at no time will this become a bashing of any companies products, a flaming war, or vehicle to repeat hearsay. This review/comparison is designed for you the user or customer to ask or make informed decisions about your bender or the purchase of a bender.

Lets begin, this comparison will be based upon the JD2 Model3, JMR Mechanical Bender w/hydro conversion and the Pro-tools 105 w/hydro conversion.

What we will cover in this comparison will be the specs of the main arms, swing arms, pins, stop and degree, and dies. More specifically the 1.75 die, which is the most popular and any crossover parts and accessories. There will be two parts; Part 1 will cover the main arms, swing arms, pins, stop and degrees, and Dies. Part 2 will cover actually bending tubing.

Note: To view the photos in this comparison and get the most out of the comparison, you need to register on the OFN.
http://www.offroadfabnet.com/forums/register.php




The main arms of the benders are where most of the strength primarily comes from. There are a few similarities and differences between the Model3, JMR's and Pro-Tools 105std and HD.

Attachment 1989

Both the JD2 and Pro-tools benders use the same hardware to mount the bender main arms. This consists of .75 Bolts with Nuts & Washers, 1 OD Frame spacers, and .75 Nuts and Washers. JMR use a .75" Bolt and a .625" Bolt with Nuts & Washers, 1 OD Frame spacers, All three models have mounting holes, which are 2 center to center, this means a stand from any of the companies would work on the others bender.

Model3 Main Arm specs:

Length 16.250
Widest Width 3.50
Thickness .500
Mounting holes 2 center to center
Tubing Capacity: Round tubing and pipe from 1/2" to 2" O.D. and square tubing from 1/2" to 1-1/2"

Attachment 1992
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105STD Main Arm specs:

Length 18
Widest Width 3.00
Thickness .500
Mounting holes 2 center to center
Tubing Capacity: Round tubing and pipe from 1/2" to 1.75" O.D. and square tubing from 1/2" to 1-1/2"

105HD Main Arm specs:

Length 18
Widest Width 3.00
Thickness .625
Mounting holes 2 center to center
Tubing Capacity: Round tubing and pipe from 1/2" to 2" O.D. and square tubing from 1/2" to 1-1/2"

Attachment 1991
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JMR Main Arm specs:

Length 18
Widest Width 3.115
Thickness .593
Mounting holes 2 center to center
Tubing Capacity: 2-1/2" Round Tube, 2" Square Tube,
2" Sch 40 Pipe Capacity

Attachment 1990
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You will notice that the thickness of the JMR Main arms is not a full 5/8" thick. This because JMR uses a proprietary Heat Treated Alloy and then blanchard grinds both their main arms and their swing arms, providing a very true surface.

The thinnest part of the main arms is a little difficult to measure on the model3, because there is a backing block pin hole located very close to the main frame pin. The thinnest portion of the arms on the model3 was measured at 1.875 and measured at 2.250 on the Pro-Tools 105 and JMR Benders. But as you can see in the photo below, from an engineering stand point the thinnest part of the model 3 arms would be the last pin hole before the main pin, this measurement is 1.

Attachment 1993

The photo above also shows, the lower frame link mounting point, which the Model 3 degree plate installs upon.

Backing block pin holes on the Pro-tools 105 and JMR Benders are .125 apart and .375 apart on the Model3, combine this with different drive pin locations on the dies and this means that dies are not interchangeable between JD and either Pro-Tools or JMR. But the dies from Pro-tools and JMR are interchangeable.

The 105 has a groove machined into the lower arm to accept a washer, that when greased allows the swing arms to move freely. The lower main arm and the swing arms on the 105 do not make direct contact.

Attachment 1996

The Model 3 does not have this and the main arms and swing arms have direct contact. JMR has gone a step further and installed aluminum bronze bushings in the main arms and the swing arms that prevent the arms from direct contact. This in turn performs two function, prevents the arms from having direct contact with each other and prevents the swing arms from sliding out when the die in not installed. As seen in the photo's below.

Attachment 1994Attachment 1995

This mean that the main die pin is never in a bind and can be removed and inserted extremely easy.

A quick note on the finish of these benders, JMR Black Zinc Hard Coats their arms. While this provides a very nice and shiny finish, I did notice that in the assembly and conversion setup of the bender. It was very easy to scratch this finish. Pro-Tools uses a two part epoxy finish in black . This finish seems to be the most durable of the three companies. The bender that JD2 sent did not have a finish on any of the arms, it appeared to be just bare steel.




The Swing Arms, again very similar.

Attachment 1997

Model3 Swing Arm Specs:

Length 16.250
Width 2.250
Thickness - .500
Mounting Holes 3 Center to Center

Attachment 1999
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105STD and HD Swing Arm Specs:

Length 17.750
Width 2.750
Thickness - .500
Mounting Holes 2.50 Center to Center

Attachment 2000
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JMR Swing Arm Specs:

Length 18.00
Width 3.00
Thickness - .450
Mounting Holes 2.50 Center to Center

Attachment 1998
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Lets start with the lever or hydraulic connection end. The hardware used to secure these two arms together is the same for all models. They both use 1/2 Bolts and Washers, 3/4 OD Spacer Tubes, and 1/2 Nuts and Washers. But the mounting holes are located in different places, thus making the hydraulic conversion brackets from Pro-tools not compatible with the JD2 Bender. Since I do not have the JD2 Hydraulic Conversion brackets, but only the Pro-tools ones. I can tell you that it would be possible to re-drill the Pro-tools Hydraulic conversion plates to match the mounting holes on the model3 and you could use the Pro-tools conversion kit on your Model3.

JMR offers a Hydraulic conversion that works on all three benders, because the mounting points are welded directly on the cylinder.Both Pro-tools and JD2 use the Power Team 10 Ton, 14" Stroke Cylinder. JMR manufactures their own cylinder that a return built into the cylinder that works with their air-over pum.

I will be doing a review of the Hydraulic Conversions available in the future.




The pins are yet another area of these models which are very similar. Both the Model 3, 105, and JMR use 4 pins, unless you request that Pro-tools puts the Anti-Springback tab on the backing block and then you will be provided with an extra pin that has a milled surface for the tension bolt to tighten against.

Attachment 2001

Model3 Pins are CNC machined as one solid piece with slots machined in at the top to improve grip, they use a slotted spring pin to keep them from dropping through the bender arms. I could find no information on the materials used and if they are heat-treated or not.

Attachment 2003
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105 Pins are CNC machined out of heat treated tool steel with easy grip finger indentations and a machined lip to keep them from falling through the arms, the Main Die Pin has a self-aligning taper machined into the end.

Attachment 2002

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JMR pins are made from heat treated 4140, they have a beautiful finish and the main die pin has an extra long handle for a better grip. JMR also provides an extra drive that is smaller than the other drive, this enables you to put a pin the closest pin hole to the Main die hole.

Attachment 2004

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Attachment 2005

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This is a major area of difference between all three models. The Model3 uses an .125 thick printed degree wheel that connects to the bottom of the main arm.

Attachment 2006
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Pro-tools utilize a degree and stop ring combined with a special adjustable stop bracket, with fine adjustment. The ring is made out of CNC machined 5/16" steel and engraved with negative 5 degrees all the way up to positive 220 degrees. The pointer uses a cast piece with slip locking nut to hold a thick piece of copper. The entire assembly mounts under the main arms and utilizes the same mounting bolts as the main arms.

Attachment 2008
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JMR use a .353" Thick piece of aluminum that is CNC engraved with negative 5 degrees all the way up to positive 220 degrees.

Attachment 2007
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Attachment 2009

The pointer for the JD2 Model 3 is a TIG welding rod, which you bend into shape and attach to the back of the U-Strap tab on the dies with the provided bolt and washer. The Model3 does not have built in stop for repeatable bends.

The Pointer on the Pro-tools 105 uses a cast piece and a tightening screw to hold a a .188" thick copper rod. This entire unit connects directly to the end of the strap tab on the die. Pro-tools also provides a stop unit that mounts to holes in the degree ring. You use an indexing bolt to set a stop that the die strap can come into contact with, which lets you know when you have achieved your desired bend radius.

JMR use a pointer that appears to made from the same material as a coolant hose used on machining tools. With individual joints it is very easy to point it into position. This entire unit connects directly to the end of the strap tab on the die.




The dies we will use in the second part of this comparison will all be 1.75 tubing dies.

I will go ahead of show some photos and specs of these dies. The photos show exactly what is delivered to you when you purchase a die from any of the three companies.

You will notice that JD2 does not provide any other pins, your drive pin, and strap pin are included with the purchase of the bender.

Pro-tools provides a new strap pin, backing block pin, and a tension tab pin if your requested a tab be installed on your die with the purchase of every die.

JMR provides an additional strap pin with the purchase of every die.

Here is a photo of the Tube straps for each company just to show you the different approaches each company has to their dies. All the straps are .250" thick

Attachment 2013
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JD2 1.75 Die;

1-3/4" OD Tubing, .095" minimum wall thickness and a 5.5" CLR. I could not find what the maximum wall thickness was for this die. JD2 dies are 210 degrees which enable you to bend 180 degrees. The tension tab on the back of the die is 1.5" wide and 1.250" thick and uses a .75" tension bolt. This is also where the bolt is to wrap your tig rod pointer around is.

JD2 dies are solid steel billets and carry a lifetime guarantee against breakage. The material in their replaceable inserts in their backing blocks seems to be a secret.

Attachment 2010

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Pro-tools 1.75 x 6 x 240

Pro-tools dies are available in either a 120 or 240 version. the 120 dies enable you to bend 110 degrees, while the 240 versions enable you to bend 180 degrees.

Pro-tools uses Steel Billet for their Main Dies and Backing Blocks, Steel Pin, Steel Strap and provide a Lifetime Warranty against Breakage. the main die is also covered in their two part epoxy.

The strap tab is 1.50" wide and 1" thick and uses a .375 tension bolt.

Attachment 2012

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JMR 1.75 x 6 x 120

JMR dies are available in either a 120 or 240 version. JMR uses Cold Rolled Alloy Bar Stock for their Main Dies and follower blocks are case hardened. You can see this in the finish on the backing blocks. Lifetime guarantee against breakage on dies

The strap tab is 2" Wide and 1" Thick and uses a .375" tension bolt.

Attachment 2011

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I am going to provide Retail pricing for every bender in this comparison. I will provide each individual cost plus a package cost. Nothing special just actual numbers.

JD2 Model 3


Model 3 Tubing Bender w/Degree Ring - $295


Stand - $135


Handle - $40




Complete package price - $470




The die used in this comparison was: 1.75 x 5.5 Tubing die - $260




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Pro-tools 105 Standard




105STD Bender - $275


Stop and Degree - $135


Stand - $89


Handle - $9.95






Complete package price - $508.95



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Pro-tools 105 HD




105HD Bender - $325


Stop and Degree - $135


Stand - $89


Handle - $9.95






Complete package price - $558.95



The die used in this comparison was: 1.75 x 6 x 240 Tubing die - $295




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JMR Model 1004 Manual Bender



Bender - $495
Degree Ring - $150
Stand - $98

Complete package price - $743

The die used in this comparison was: 1.75 x 6 x 120 Tubing die - $375

KeithXtreme 02-28-2007 09:39 PM

Be sure to post up in this Review it is open to everyone!

Captainfab 03-01-2007 12:31 AM

Keith, good job with this review so far, I'm looking forward to the rest.

At some point in this review could you demonstrate the proper use of the adjustable stop on the PT105STD? I haven't taken much time to figure mine out, but then again I haven't asked anyone either. I'm pretty sure I know how it works, but I haven't used it yet. I just thought it might be nice to show so everyone can see. Thanks for taking the time to do this review. :biggrin:

KeithXtreme 03-27-2007 05:30 PM

Its back up and ready for everyone.....

fabcam 03-27-2007 06:06 PM

all 3 side by side
 
First time I have heard of someone getting a chance to break down the nuts and bolts of each bender and seeing what they look like side by side.

Thanks for the review.


NOTE: For guests who are not members..... Sign up and be a member, the pictures are much easier to see.



.

TheBandit 03-27-2007 06:44 PM

That's a nice set of photos outlining the few differences among the benders. One thing that's been rumored is that the JMR and Pro Tools dies are interchangeable. Is this true?

fabcam 03-27-2007 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBandit (Post 21689)
One thing that's been rumored is that the JMR and Pro Tools dies are interchangeable. Is this true?

Yes

Quoted from the reveiw:
Backing block pin holes on the Pro-tools 105 and JMR Benders are .125” apart and .375” apart on the Model3, combine this with different drive pin locations on the dies and this means that dies are not interchangeable between JD and either Pro-Tools or JMR. But the dies from Pro-tools and JMR are interchangeable.

Rock4XFab 03-27-2007 07:51 PM

Keith the write up is very informative. I do have one question. Every die I have purchaced (all 240 for Pro-Tools) have had the tension block already welded to it. When I purchaced new follow dies They sent me ones with no block welded so I enquired. They Pro-Tools told me that on the 240 deg you get the block pre-welded, but it was not used on the 120 deg units although they are the same follow die, and if I had speified which die I had the new ones would have come with them. 2 days later the parts showed up for me to weld on. Great customer service..

KeithXtreme 03-27-2007 11:33 PM

That is news to me, Jim my sales person there had always told me they do not put them on unless 4130 was specified as a material you would be bending.

But over the years, Jim had just grown accustomed to adding it to all my die orders. So that is good info to have and just goes to show you the great customer service they have. I could not have the kind of customer service I have unless they backed me the way that they do.

I also try to keep a few of those tabs in stock for just such occasions.....

KeithXtreme 03-28-2007 12:51 PM

I just got off the phone with Jim, the owner of JMR and there are a few corrections to some of the statements in the comparison. I have changed them in the comparison, but I also wanted to post them here for a quick reference.

I originally said the dies from JMR where Steel Billet, they are in fact made from Cold Rolled Alloy Bar Stock and CNC Machined.

The finish of the JMR bender was quoted as being Hard Anodized, they are in fact Black Zinc Hard Coated.

I had a few questions today on those issues and JMR cleared them up for me.

Corban_White 06-07-2007 07:08 PM

so how's part two comming?

DevinSixtySeven 06-07-2007 07:37 PM

Excellent writeup! Definately makes it easier for first-time buyers.

The only question I have relates to the listed capacities...they're stated as max OD, but not material or wall thickness. It appears from just the listed specs that the JMR can handle a 2.5" OD round tube, but is that HREW, DOM, 4130, and in what wall thickness?

Thanks very much,
Sean

**Found it with some web wheeling...JMR states 0.25 wall 4130, I'm having trouble finding a max capacity for the 105HD...anyone know offhand? Thanks!

KeithXtreme 06-07-2007 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinSixtySeven (Post 24574)
Excellent writeup! Definately makes it easier for first-time buyers.

The only question I have relates to the listed capacities...they're stated as max OD, but not material or wall thickness. It appears from just the listed specs that the JMR can handle a 2.5" OD round tube, but is that HREW, DOM, 4130, and in what wall thickness?

Thanks very much,
Sean

I could not get any specs on the JD stuff for tubing, they always say call.....Pro-tools is .134 4130 and The JMR is .250 wall 4130 because it has the heat treated backing block......

DevinSixtySeven 06-07-2007 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithXtreme (Post 24577)
I could not get any specs on the JD stuff for tubing, they always say call.....Pro-tools is .134 4130 and The JMR is .250 wall 4130 because it has the heat treated backing block......

So if I get this right (new at this stuff!), the difference in capacity is the die set, not the arms or pins, correct? So the 105HD could do a 2.0 OD .134 4130 if it were running hydro, or I had a herd of gorillas handy?

Thanks,
Sean

KeithXtreme 06-08-2007 09:52 AM

Its a combination of both....you need nice thick arms to do 2" and the benders have to be made with enough clearance to fit a two inch die....

But yes you could do 2" on the 105hd .134 4130 with the breaker par they sell...it is not easy but you can do it....

KeithXtreme 10-02-2007 03:47 PM

The Pro-tools and JMR are very easy to bend manually with, because the swing arms are longer than the JD arms. As far as bend quality, they are all about the same, which is inherent on proper setup and the use lube....

What I wanted to test was the claims of .250 wall bending and just have not got to it.....As soon as I can get to it I will, thanks for your patience....Keith

shokid13 01-16-2008 12:49 AM

Send them to me and I'll do the test! :bounce2:

TUBETEK 02-03-2008 10:00 AM

Whoa I just found out that I bought the (according to this article) best bender on the market. Wheww, I'm glad I did one thing right when I was just stareting out. Now I finally know that the grand I dropped on the bender and all the differant dies was woth it.:smokin:

KeithXtreme 02-03-2008 02:31 PM

Which one did you buy? for the record.....

TUBETEK 02-09-2008 09:57 AM

I bought the m-tech bender, but I think its a knock off of the others. No special tooling on the pins, no laser on the degree wheel just a plain old bender that works everytime I use it.:smokin:


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